By Rocco Gaskins
Posted on Sunday, July 28th, 2024
I’ve been meaning to share my thoughts on installation costs for years, but it keeps getting put on the back burner. Today’s installation was canceled because the wall wasn’t ready, so I have some extra time.
Labor:
Travel to/from site, 30 minutes: $43.50
Dig holes, 1.25 hours: $108.75
Install sign, 30 minutes: $43.50
Load/unload truck, 30 minutes: $43.50
Total labor: $239.25
Materials:
Two 4×4 posts at $17 each: $34.00
Two bags concrete at $5 each: $10.00
Misc. (There are always items that don’t get accounted for.): $5.00
Total materials: $49.00
After 50% markup: $73.50
Total: $312.75
I was taking a gander at SignCraft’s Sign Pricing Guide and, of course, went right to installation. We install signs on a wholesale basis for other companies and probably hang more signs in a year than most small shops do in a lifetime. We do everything from small post panel installations to channel letter mall jobs to large pylons—though I avoid the mega structures since my crane is only an 85-ft. unit.
[Editor’s note: This article appeared in the January/February 2012 issue of SignCraft, and the prices were based on the 2011 Sign Pricing Guide.]
A look at the numbers
Anyway, about the installation pricing in the Guide: in a word—cheap! I ran the typical 4×8 two-pole job through the estimating spreadsheet that I use. If I ignore a few things, then the Guide’s price of $225 to install this sign is right on the money, assuming the $87 hourly rate. But let’s take a closer look. Here’s what I came up with, again based on the $87 hourly labor rate:
The time spent digging holes can vary, because some holes almost dig themselves while others take over an hour per hole if the ground is hard or frozen, or you hit rocks or who knows what.
Also, almost everyone forgets the time involved in loading and unloading the truck. You get out a shovel, posthole digger, level, tape measure, the posts, the sign (wrapped in a blanket or two), and the other items you need. It takes longer than most people think, even for me—who has most of this already on the truck. Even I don’t keep bags of concrete around (well, not too many) so that means a trip to the hardware store.
Even so, the price is still not too far off. And if you assume a bit less time to dig the holes, then we’re very close.
Most underestimate installation
Let’s talk a little more about the estimate above. My problem is that most sign people tend to underestimate the amount of time and effort it takes to install signs. Even a simple two-post job like this one is difficult. When I was 18, I would have done this by myself. But once I turned 40 (which was many moons ago) I won’t do one like this without a helper.
Okay, that cuts down the digging and assembly time and probably the load/unload time as well. Let’s put that at 30 minutes for travel, 45 minutes to dig, 25 minutes to install, and 20 minutes to load/unload. If we take the base rate and increase it to $145 per hour (adding a discounted rate for your helper, which you may not want to do), then we are at $290 for labor. Add the $73.50 materials and you have a total of $363.50.
That’s starting to get far off the Pricing Guide number. If you leave $120 or more per installation on the table, you are losing a lot of money in the course of a year. Imagine taking that much off the price of every sign. You could also contend that the labor rate should be even more than your shop rate, but I’ll ignore that for now.
In the real world, of course, you can’t always get the price that you would like. My figures may be high, even for my market. But I think it’s important to use realistic estimates as a starting point in sales.
The plot thickens
However, it gets worse. Some costs (especially time you spend on non-production issues) are easy to miss:
* Suppose you have to take a camera and snap a few photos. You have to double-check the installation location with the store owner. Or, you have to call the utility location service to get the site marked out for underground wires or pipes.
* Suppose you have to stand there and gab with the customer for a bit about the job and wait while he or she writes a check (even though you called ahead to make sure they knew that you expected a check and in what amount).
* Suppose you have to… well, you get the picture. I’d say that at least another 30 minutes needs to be added to the total labor for this job to cover these sorts of things.
* What about permits? I won’t touch that, since I really could write 50,000 words on that troublesome subject.
* There is also the fact that you are now out of the shop. I would argue the point that your installation labor rate needs to be higher than your inside rate. Why? When you are out in the hot sun or the freezing cold, everything takes longer. You are digging holes, carrying bags of concrete, climbing ladders, wearing down your digging tools, using a truck (gas, mileage, wear and tear), etc. All those tools didn’t come free, either.
* Does your insurance company make you break down the installation portion of your yearly labor? Mine does, and that insurance rate is higher than it is for inside work. I once asked my insurance agent about that. He said that as sign installers, we are just a step or two below high steel workers for insurance rates.
* Go ahead and tell your insurance company that you don’t install at all. That will save on insurance costs, but don’t try to collect if you fall off a ladder or hit your helper’s foot with the posthole digger. Accidents happen.
* I make signs as well as install them. You work harder on an installation than you do in the shop. If anyone thinks that installing signs is easy, let them come with me for a week. Installing a sign, even at ground level, can be dangerous and exhausting. A premium should be charged for this work.
I feel that the Sign Pricing Guide rate for installation is at least 50% low—maybe even 75% to 100% low. And that’s for a simple job like the two-post 4×8 sign in the Guide. Don’t even get me started on something like installing an illuminated cabinet on a wall.
With the input from Rocco and other sign professionals, we adjusted the installation rates in the Sign Pricing Guide starting in 2012. Even so, it’s important to periodically track the time and materials you spend on typical installations so you can be sure you’re not losing money on them. —Editors
Rocco Gaskins, Sr. owns Abco Signs in Pennsauken, New Jersey.
