Design & Price: 3-by-5-ft. dimensional sign

In every issue, SignCraft gave a few sign makers an imaginary project. We asked them to do a sketch of the sign they might have produced, and to quote a price for the job. Most of the details were left to the designer’s imagination. The object was to see how different sign makers approach the same project. Here’s the scenario these sign makers were given:

The owner of a local fly-fishing shop has built a new stone-and-timber shop outside of town near a famous trout stream. He says he’d like a dimensional wood sign, either carved or sandblasted, in a mounting that reflects the rustic architecture of his building. His budget is about $5000. Make a sketch of the sign you might have designed for this customer and quote a price.

Jeff Gilfix

Brushfire Signs, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

I would first meet with the client to take measurements and photos of his storefront. I use a digital camera for this so I can build the design on top of the photo to show him exactly how the sign will look on his building, and how it will fit within the architectural elements. I charge a flat fee of $300 for this process. It is later absorbed into the cost of the sign.

I then meet the customer at my shop to see it on my computer screen. This eliminates the uncomfortable feeling of leaving the drawing for his “partner” to look at later on. His partner is always welcome to come to my shop and see it here. I have been pretty successful at this and explain to them that it is best represented on the screen, rather than printed on paper. We can also tweak the layout and colors here or there while it’s on the computer.

This is a 3-by-5-ft.-by-4-in.-thick double-sided cedar sandblasted sign. Flat iron mounting bars fit into the center of the sign with dado cut.

After preparing and sandblasting the sign, I would take it to my scroll saw to cut out the treetops. Using the Dremel tool, I would lightly sculpt the trees, giving them more dimension. The trees would of course be visible from both sides and the voided “sky” would change with the weather.

Fly Shop would be incised lettering and painted for added dimension. The fish would be carved SignFoam high-density urethane board the same as the lure. The carved banner would be attached using recessed flat bars. Square cedar appliqués would be added to the corners for extra dimension.

If the customer wants to purchase the drawing to use as a logo, I would charge $1200 and give him a few different formats/would-be layouts for various advertisements, etc.

 

Fred Schlatter

Fred Schlatter/Woodcarver, Graphic Designer, CarvedGraphics.net, Benicia, California

Although I can offer sandblasted work, hand-carved signs are my specialty. Once a budget has been established, my approach is to design the most sign I can produce for that amount. For material stability, I would not attempt to carve a 3-by-5-ft. double-faced sign that is in anything thinner than 3-in. cedar or redwood, which would be doweled and laminated with marine-grade glue.

Since $5000 isn’t much for a 3-by-5-ft. hand-carved, double-faced sign, I would encourage the client to consider any cost savings that could be factored in. In this case I figured that if the sign could be client-installed from a projecting beam on a roof overhang, using black-finished chain links, it could eliminate the additional cost of producing a wrought steel hanger; and virtually the entire budget could be used toward the carving and finishing of the panel. Therefore, the sign as designed could be produced (FOB) within the $5000 budget, but the installation and any hanger costs would be picked up by the client.

Another negotiating factor could be a possible size reduction. Bigger is not necessarily better, but hand carved versus sandblasted would be a much better investment.

The sign as designed would be finished with custom mixed stains and bulletin enamels. Gold leaf would be used in some of the fly elements (the hook and some parts of the feathers), as well as on The Dusty Miller. The background would have a deep blue stain, with a light gray color on the line filament to make it stand out from the darker background. Fly Shop would be painted in a salmon color, but somewhat more yellow. The border (like the filament) would be finished with light gray.

The fly would be finished—in addition to the elements in gold leaf—in the bright colors of the actual fly “Dusty Miller.” (I received permission from Bryant Freeman, the fly designer, to use the “Dusty Miller” in a carving.) The entire panel would be gone over with a dark stain and rubbed to selectively bring out the original colors and produce an antique patina.

Price: $5000

 

Noëlla Cotnam and Nancy Beaudette

Sign It, Cornwall, Ontario, Canada

We know that Mr. Andrews has budgeted $5000US, which translates to about $6800CDN. He envisions a double-sided 3-by-5-ft. dimensional sign and is hoping that installation is included. I figure my budget will be roughly $6800CDN, so with some quick number crunching and plenty of design and material latitude, I know we can work within this rather tight budget and produce a signature piece for Dan’s stunning new building.

I take him through the shop, talking materials, finishes and design ideas. I try not to get too detailed or focused at this point. I am building a trust relationship and just getting him excited about the possibilities. Before going any further, we ask for a 50-percent deposit on the total project cost and establish a timeline.

Now the fun begins. I like to sit with a project for a few days (or weeks if I’m lucky) picking up random reference clips (ideas, photos, smells, sounds, etc.), jotting down anything that feels right. I knew I wanted to sculpt a pictorial element for this project and considered a large fish, a large fly, or maybe an old man tying a fly as in “Dusty Miller.” I got hooked on the trout!

We have great pictures of his new building along with color references, architectural detail photos and location, traffic, and neighborhood reference shots. Many thumbnail sketches later, I hammer down a general direction style and installation possibilities, then prepare a few drawings for Dan’s approval before proceeding with any material ordering or engineering.

I have prepared three sketches, all a variation on a theme: same typeface and general layout, same massive timber posting, same panel material, same sculpted accent, and hey—same price. I have suggested a few different installation possibilities.

Size: Approximately 3 by 5 ft.

Materials:

2 1⁄2-in.- thick vertical grain California redwood panel

8-by-8-in. rough-cut pine post(s) with 1 1⁄4-in.-diameter oak pegs

Faux-rusted steel hardware as required

Lettering: Fly Shop is 1-in.-thick rustic carved (tooled) high-density urethane board mounted to 1⁄4-in.-thick black Sintra PVC board backer/outline. The Dusty Miller and Daniel Andrews, Proprietor are 1⁄2-in. high-density urethane board and 1⁄8-in. Sintra PVC board to match the main copy. The trout is 15-lb. high-density urethane board glued up to size with embedded aluminum rods for secure fixing to the main panel.

Finishes: All exterior water-based flat paints, except the glossy wet-looking trout

Colors: I’m thinking natural clear post(s). The main panel would blend from steely blue to deep mossy green to earthy and tans tinted up to warm white splashy water detail around the fish. The trout is the “hook” so to speak. With its amazing color display, twist and size, this is the emotional trigger that will get the customer into the store. The main copy is white with black outline for pop, and the secondary copy is a warm off-white perhaps with an apricot tint, a color that could be repeated on the trout and dotted through the composition.

Design A & B:

I would have the grooves routed into the panel, then starting from a solid unmarked surface at the bottom, gradually blast from sparse coverage to full texture up under the water splash below the fish.

Design C: I would carve the rocks at the bottom of the panel in low relief, then lightly carve water and bubbles swirling up and curling around the frame and blending into a treed silhouette across the top edge.

The initial estimate looks like this: 15 sq. ft. times $154 per sq. ft. equals $2310. This times 80% equals $1848 for the second side. That gives a total of $4158, leaving $1461 for posts and installation.

That leaves $1882 for all other labor @ $100/hour (our shop rate). That gives us 19 hours for labor, and that’s the time budget we have to try to meet. All these figures are variable according to actual material and actual time costs. It all balances out in the end.

Finally, I have to say that these are just the sign costs. I would sell him a logo, and artwork for $500 to $1500, matching parking signs, and window lettering—and maybe a logo sign next to the entrance or behind the service desk, then a banner for the fishing derby. Now that we are good friends and he is teaching me how to fly fish…you get the picture.

David Butler

Butler Signs, Syracuse, Indiana

In the process of doing this Design/Cost assignment, it has become more “real” to me than I would have liked (and I hope I’m not alone here!). As always, the deadline is upon me now and I’m left with my sketch in a less-than-preferred-state to present to my client.

So I’m forced to be creative in more than just the designing of this project. I must be even more creative with my dialogue. This usually results in my hearing something like “you sure are a fast talker.…” He’s right—I’ve had plenty of practice at this in the last 30 years.

Well, one thing about having the sketch just this far along is that if he didn’t care for it, I haven’t lost that much time on it. At any rate I would now explain how I’d like to finish out this design. First, I’d make this guy look like he was a fisherman, with a hat and vest and whatever else. I’d put a rod in one hand with a line and a fly in his other hand—this would certainly convey the idea that this is a fly-fishing business.

I’ll bet Daniel also ties flies. He could fabricate a nice little moth and it would be suspended from a thread, and with a slight breeze provided by Mother Nature it would begin to pester our fisherman. I would also suggest that he (Daniel) would put on the garb and we would shoot some pictures for reference. He’d surely smile at the idea of his likeness up there on this sign. Okay—I think I’ve sold him on the design part of this project.

We could probably meet his budget of $5000 but wouldn’t be able to include as much dimension. I would try to sell him on the idea that this sign is going to be up there for a long time and that the added interest that could be gained with more dimension will cause his potential customers to have the same added interest in his business. If he could swing another $2500, he could have a sign that we could both be proud of.

 

This article appeared in the July/August 2003 issue of SignCraft. While the prices have been adjusted from 2003 to 2025 for inflation, they may not accurately reflect current pricing for such signage.